I was really surprised because I had assumed that Invisalign would not return a sub-optimal treatment plan. That is when I realized that it is our dentists, not the company, that determines the outcome of our treatment. My dentist proceeded to work with Invisalign to come up with a standard treatment plan. The way it works is that the dentist tells them what he/she wants, they provide the clinicheck and this goes back and forth until the dentist is satisfied. My dentist had them add buttons to move the bottoms they way they needed to be moved to get the result he wanted. Invisalign has the technology but Invisalign is not reponsible for how it is applied to achieve the patient's results. The dentist is.

If something goes wrong (impressions aren't accurate or results don't match goals), I've heard people say that the patient is not charged for the "refinement". I don't know that this necessarily means no cost to the dentist????

Also cases vary significantly in level of difficulty. I think it is important to think about all this when talking about cost of treatment to the patient. Hopefully, we are going to be happy with our results for the rest of our lives.

quote:

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Originally posted by dyingsun16:
So I came across this release from invisalign:

http://investor.aligntech.com/ReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=178312&

Says that they charge the dentist $750 for invisalign express and $1495 for regular invisalign.

Granted, dentists do work that is worthy of profit, but for the most part, when dentists charge the patient $5000 for invisalin, they make BANK. Again, they earn money and deserve it, but $3500 worth of labor?

Interesting I think. Just had my four wisdom teeth pulled out and going to get a mouth mold in a week to start invisalign. woot woot! Hope invisalign express approves me, otherwise straight to the $$$$ invisalign :-X

aloha

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quote:

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Originally posted by dyingsun16:
So I came across this release from invisalign:

http://investor.aligntech.com/ReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=178312&

Says that they charge the dentist $750 for invisalign express and $1495 for regular invisalign.

Granted, dentists do work that is worthy of profit, but for the most part, when dentists charge the patient $5000 for invisalin, they make BANK. Again, they earn money and deserve it, but $3500 worth of labor?

Interesting I think. Just had my four wisdom teeth pulled out and going to get a mouth mold in a week to start invisalign. woot woot! Hope invisalign express approves me, otherwise straight to the $$$$ invisalign :-X

aloha

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quote:

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Originally posted by BadBoy:
In southern california, $5000 is a typical ballpark figure, some dentists are cheaper, some orthos are higher. Will vary a bit if your case is a lot simpler or more complicated than the average one year treatment. Shop around a few different doctors even in the same area and you may find quite a variation, reported prices have varied from $3500-$7000.

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Also, what are these "buttons" are they visible? big or what? and for the "shaving" does it permanently keep your teeth in that shape afterwards?

im going to get ortho clear... i have an appointment with my ortho on mon for the "record" appointment...taking molds i guess...

what are these "buttons" are they visible? big or what? and for the "shaving" does it permanently keep your teeth in that shape afterwards?

i would really appreciate help. could someone tell me the ups and downs of orthoclear? thnx!

I am curious though: when I had the lower tray initially installed, my dentist who is a perfectionist wanted to send them back and make Invisalign redo them because he thought they could be off by a millimeter or so and didn't like it. I had already waited the normal 10 weeks because he rejected the first 3 ClnChks they sent ( he makes each patient come in and review the clinchecks and expalins what ISN'T right. Finally we agreed on the 4th, but when they arrived and I was in the chair he didn't like their fit 100%, saying that the one tooth wasn't seating properly and was off by a hair (1/2 mm). ( Did I mention he is a freak of perfectionism?) I didn't want to wait another 6 or 8 weeks so I said let's try them and so far so good. When he was affixing my buttons, 4 top 5 bottom, he noted that two of them had to be on two opposing crowns, and they could not find the porcelain cement he wanted. He told me they would pop off he if used the standard 'bonding solution', but they have been fine so far. Something that worries me though, is that he said he had to 'crack the seal' of the porcelain crown so the bonding cement would have something to grab ahold of. Should I have waited for them to get the correct cement? We already had the top buttons on and the first set of IPR's completed and I didn't want to look like a freak. I want to ask him if there is going to be any damage to the crowns, but since he is such a perfectionist, I can't believe he would have decided to do something that may cause long term issues with my two crowns.

How should I ask him politely if maybe he screwed up (which I can't believe), or is this normal? I didn't ask (or think to ask) if the crown attachment would have any further maintenance issues. When the Tx is finished and the buttons come off, what happens to that area of the crowns that was 'drilled lightly to affix the cement?
All the crowns he has done have also been absolutely perfect, pain free from the time of permanent affixation, and I have friends that now go to this dentist because he is so good. Am I being paranoid? I spent a lot more money on my crowns than a normal dentist, because of horror stories of misfitting and painful crowns and luckily have none of those issues.
So.,,,
1. Is there any issues with using regular cement on crowns other than loss of adhesion?

2. Is it normal to break the seal of a crown or whatever they call it when u make a surface rough?

3. If #2 is no, how does one 'reseal' a crown once the surface is broken?

4. Why would one tray out of 15 (or maybe two) so more drastic than the others that cause me no pain? The other tray that will cause me pain is tray 13 and I get more IPR's right after 12 lower..

I probably wouldn't ask him "Did you screw up"?. I would say something like "I've been worrying that I may have made the wrong decision by insisting that you use the "wrong cement". Are you sure there will not be any long-term repercussions, for example ...."

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Originally posted by DonnelleyPCDude:
Just got tray 5 and OMG I WANNA DIE... I had my second set of IPR's (4 of them on 8 teeth) and when I snapped (that's being kind) them into place, it sounded like a shotgun going off. My dentist warned me that this was going to be a difficult tray but I had no clue...Holy COW !!! I thought the previous trays were a little uncomfortable, and maybe a little bit painful but OMG I thought someone was in my mouth with a pair of vice grips. It took two days for the pain to fade away to almost tolerable (it's been 3 days), and heavy narcotics to allow me to take them in and out... I pray tomorrow that I wake up and they don't hurt...lol Luckily I was told the next 7 trays will be easier (only 15 total) but that tray 13 may be painful too.

I am curious though: when I had the lower tray initially installed, my dentist who is a perfectionist wanted to send them back and make Invisalign redo them because he thought they could be off by a millimeter or so and didn't like it. I had already waited the normal 10 weeks because he rejected the first 3 ClnChks they sent ( he makes each patient come in and review the clinchecks and expalins what ISN'T right. Finally we agreed on the 4th, but when they arrived and I was in the chair he didn't like their fit 100%, saying that the one tooth wasn't seating properly and was off by a hair (1/2 mm). ( Did I mention he is a freak of perfectionism?) I didn't want to wait another 6 or 8 weeks so I said let's try them and so far so good. When he was affixing my buttons, 4 top 5 bottom, he noted that two of them had to be on two opposing crowns, and they could not find the porcelain cement he wanted. He told me they would pop off he if used the standard 'bonding solution', but they have been fine so far. Something that worries me though, is that he said he had to 'crack the seal' of the porcelain crown so the bonding cement would have something to grab ahold of. Should I have waited for them to get the correct cement? We already had the top buttons on and the first set of IPR's completed and I didn't want to look like a freak. I want to ask him if there is going to be any damage to the crowns, but since he is such a perfectionist, I can't believe he would have decided to do something that may cause long term issues with my two crowns.

How should I ask him politely if maybe he screwed up (which I can't believe), or is this normal? I didn't ask (or think to ask) if the crown attachment would have any further maintenance issues. When the Tx is finished and the buttons come off, what happens to that area of the crowns that was 'drilled lightly to affix the cement?
All the crowns he has done have also been absolutely perfect, pain free from the time of permanent affixation, and I have friends that now go to this dentist because he is so good. Am I being paranoid? I spent a lot more money on my crowns than a normal dentist, because of horror stories of misfitting and painful crowns and luckily have none of those issues.
So.,,,
1. Is there any issues with using regular cement on crowns other than loss of adhesion?

2. Is it normal to break the seal of a crown or whatever they call it when u make a surface rough?

3. If #2 is no, how does one 'reseal' a crown once the surface is broken?

4. Why would one tray out of 15 (or maybe two) so more drastic than the others that cause me no pain? The other tray that will cause me pain is tray 13 and I get more IPR's right after 12 lower..

Thanks,
Steve

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quote:

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Originally posted by TJ:
I just had an initial consult today and took molds and exrays. I have to go have some pics taken tomorrow morning for an orthodontic survey. I still have no idea until my next visit how much this is going to cost. My question is has anyone gotten their invisalign in San Diego and what did it cost them? Also has anyone had anyone see a Dr. Adams here as well? I just want to have a ballpark estimate on what he may quote me.

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Hi TJ,
I'm in SD and I saw Dr Adams. I went through the initial consult and got my quote from him, then got another opinion from an ortho that was recommended to me. I decided to go to the second Ortho for a number of reasons. The ortho I chose is also a Premier Prov. and very highly recommended and was quite a bit less. Invisalign is quite an investment. My husband and I figured I'd better get more then one opinion. What part of SD are you in. I am in North County. Email me and I'll give you more info.

destinationfit@cox.net

Can't say I've ever heard of that term used in conjunction with Invisalign before.

quote:

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Originally posted by AnneC:
Parsley - can you tell us what "temp trays" are?

Can't say I've ever heard of that term used in conjunction with Invisalign before.

Welcome aboard -
Anne

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Hi Anne,

Thank you!

My DR is having me wear temparary trays up until I get the invisalign aligners. I guess so my teeth don't shift. I was wondering if anyone else had these because nobody has mentioned them. But, it make sense to me.

Last Tues I had molds made for my temp trays. This Wed I will go in and have the molds made for the invisalign aligners. Then I get the temps and start wearing them. I will wear them until I get the aligners.

quote:

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Originally posted by BadBoy:
Are you rather young, Parsley? I've only seen that recommendation to prevent teeth from shifting between making the molds and getting the aligners in one of those reports for Invisalign use with patients under 21 or so. I haven't heard of temp trays needed for adult patients.

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Hi BadBoy,

Nope, I'm an adult. I'll be 40 in Oct. But, my teeth are shifting. I didn't need braces when I was younger, my teeth started shifting in the past 5-10 years. I don't know if it's nessesary or not, but I'll do as my Dr says. The first Dr I went to didn't mention temporary trays.

quote:

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Originally posted by Susan:
I'm thinking of getting Invisalign and I'm scared to death of getting the molds/impressions made! I've had the traditional molds made in the past, and it is almost impossible for the ortho to get them, as I gag horribly with tears running down my face. I've actually pulled them out more than once prior to them being finished because I thought I was going to choke. I've heard that Invisalign molds have to sit for a long time compared to the traditional ones. But no one has talked about them in this whole thread! Are they really awful and how do they compare to the molds for traditional braces?

I have a very small mouth and they usually have to use the children's size trays on me (even though I'm 48!), and they have sometimes used the bottom teeth tray for the top teeth so I don't have to have so much goop pressing at the back of my mouth.

Susan

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quote:

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Originally posted by Alberto:
I was just scanning notes and wanted to comment on this one, though probably too late for Susan. I have a real gag reflex, too, and no one told me about the mold. I assumed it was a sponge to bite into for a few seconds or something, silly me. My ortho's asst said one guy tried 3 times to have the mold taken and then just gave up and went with trad'l braces. The hardest mold for me was the upper that I had to keep in for 4 minutes (I thought this was longer than other types of molds, but am not sure). I told the ortho's asst to keep talking and letting me know how much time was left. I told her to ignore my initial gagging, that I'll try to get through it. I kept my mouth open as wide as possible so I didn't feel the stuff on my tongue. I also worked hard, hard, hard to breathe out of my nose and to concentrate on the breathe in my stomach going in and out (one meditation technique), and darn, I got through it. So for you people with gag reflexes, it is possible! Good luck.

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Go back to page 29 of this thread. You will find some other suggestions to the same concern voiced by Susan on May 6.

quote:

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Originally posted by Alberto:
I was just scanning notes and wanted to comment on this one, though probably too late for Susan. I have a real gag reflex, too, and no one told me about the mold. I assumed it was a sponge to bite into for a few seconds or something, silly me. My ortho's asst said one guy tried 3 times to have the mold taken and then just gave up and went with trad'l braces. The hardest mold for me was the upper that I had to keep in for 4 minutes (I thought this was longer than other types of molds, but am not sure). I told the ortho's asst to keep talking and letting me know how much time was left. I told her to ignore my initial gagging, that I'll try to get through it. I kept my mouth open as wide as possible so I didn't feel the stuff on my tongue. I also worked hard, hard, hard to breathe out of my nose and to concentrate on the breathe in my stomach going in and out (one meditation technique), and darn, I got through it. So for you people with gag reflexes, it is possible! Good luck.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Betsy:
Hi Alberto,

Go back to page 29 of this thread. You will find some other suggestions to the same concern voiced by Susan on May 6.

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quote:

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Originally posted by JoeSC1:
I am on tray 9 of 9 for my upper, and 10 of 31 for lower. Has anyone else had this many more lower trays than uppers? I think if I keep #9 tray in uppers, while I go through tray #11 - 31 for lower the upper tray is going to get pretty worn out.

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I have the same concerns, I have 18 uppers and 29 lowers. I don't think an aligner designed for a few weeks wear should last for several months. I'm going to ask my dentist to get the invisalign clear retainer for the uppers made at the time I'm on the last upper aligner and switch to it since its made of a more durable clear material thats designed to last for 2 years. It should work the same since its made to match the final aligner in the series. Then the last aligner can server as a backup if the retainer is lost or broken for a few weeks.

quote:

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Originally posted by BadBoy:
I have the same concerns, I have 18 uppers and 29 lowers. I don't think an aligner designed for a few weeks wear should last for several months. I'm going to ask my dentist to get the invisalign clear retainer for the uppers made at the time I'm on the last upper aligner and switch to it since its made of a more durable clear material thats designed to last for 2 years. It should work the same since its made to match the final aligner in the series. Then the last aligner can server as a backup if the retainer is lost or broken for a few weeks.

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quote:

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Originally posted by JoeSC1:
I wil have been wearing my final set # 9 on my uppers for 6 weeks when I go back. Is this going to be a problem?

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quote:

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Originally posted by BadBoy:
Since the regular aligners are ordinarily only worn for 2-3 weeks each, I would be concerned about wearing them much longer than that. The special invisaling retainers look like the clear aligners but I was told by a rep that they are made from a different more durable material that is rated at 2 years lifespan. I'm concerned that if I wore the last aligner in the series for 5 months or so (the difference between the end of the uppers vs the lowers for me) that that aligner would wear out or crack before them and I wouldn't have a spare available for some time and that would cost extra money anyway. I'd prefer to order the real durable clear retainer at the time of the last aligner for the early ending arch since I'd have to get one anyway at some point, then I'd have the last aligner still in good shape as a backup too.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Josh888:
I'm picking up my first tray in... 14 hours. I'm pumped about it -- I'm 28 years old and my gangly crowded teeth have always bothered me.

I'm thankful I found this board. Some useful information for sure.

I'm not too worried about the discomfort because I have a pretty high pain threshold... What I'm worried about is the discipline required! My wife says I have ADD, which is probably true to some degree. I just know I'll go out with the fellas one night and leave the tray or something bone-headed like that.

And I've been using smokeless tobacco (dip) for 10 years, which I'll be giving up in.... 14 hours (it was part of the deal to convince my wife that we should spend $5,000 on these things). But without the dip, coffee will be an absolute MUST. And lots of it. And I'm not brushing my teeth after every cup of coffee, I gotta be realistic here. So am I going to have nasty brown trays? Hope not. Maybe I'll just rinse with water after each cup of coffee.

Well I'll put these things through the ringer, no doubt. For those of you curious just what kind of abuse the invisalign trays can stand up to, I have a 9-month case study beginning tomorrow afternoon

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I'm wrapping up week four, 2nd set of trays; 30 upper, 24 lower, two weeks each. I've got some crowding in the front where my teeth moved after having conventional braces 30 years ago. Nothing too awful, just awfully disappointing to me after enduring those three torturous years. I'd say, without a doubt, that the discomfort associated with Invisalign does not EVEN compare with the discomfort of metal braces.

Having said that, I WILL say that I was fairly worn out by the experience the first week of treatment. I felt like I had been gripping a pencil between my back teeth, or, somedays, that I had been hanging mid-air by my teeth like a circus performer. The teeth movement pain hasn't been really noticeable compared with just having a really really TIRED face.

Things are so much better: the dry mouth, the dry lips, the sore throat, the tightness of the trays. But the muscles in my cheeks back toward the hinge of the jaw are still really sore. I've gotten a couple of severe tension headaches when I've tried to work out recently too. It's as if all my head and neck muscles are strained from coping with this new addition to my mouth.

Firstly I'd just like to say thanks so much to all of you for sharing all of your experiences with invisalign and orthoClear, it's helped me a lot! I'm in the process of deciding whether or not I should get invisalign. Based on some of your posts, i've become a little hesitant, but maybe someone could clarify some things for me?

The whole 'invisible' factor is really important to me. I've looked at various photos of people wearing them, including some on this board. Some are barely noticable, and others are very noticable to me, especially the ones where the teeth don't seem to fit in the aligners all the way to the bottom, this makes them very visible since you can see part of the tray sticking out from the bottom of your teeth. What's the deal with that? why do some people's aligner's fit so much better than others?

And also, about these 'buttons' that they put on the front of your teeth. I read in a post that one girl complained to her dentist about this feature, so he sent back her aligners, and had them re-made so that the buttons could be placed in the back of her teeth, which was great, because no one could see them anymore. Has anyone else had their buttons placed in the back of their teeth also?

Thanks in advance for any of your replies!

quote:

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Originally posted by Lisa101:
Hey everyone,

Firstly I'd just like to say thanks so much to all of you for sharing all of your experiences with invisalign and orthoClear, it's helped me a lot! I'm in the process of deciding whether or not I should get invisalign. Based on some of your posts, i've become a little hesitant, but maybe someone could clarify some things for me?

The whole 'invisible' factor is really important to me. I've looked at various photos of people wearing them, including some on this board. Some are barely noticable, and others are very noticable to me, especially the ones where the teeth don't seem to fit in the aligners all the way to the bottom, this makes them very visible since you can see part of the tray sticking out from the bottom of your teeth. What's the deal with that? why do some people's aligner's fit so much better than others?

And also, about these 'buttons' that they put on the front of your teeth. I read in a post that one girl complained to her dentist about this feature, so he sent back her aligners, and had them re-made so that the buttons could be placed in the back of her teeth, which was great, because no one could see them anymore. Has anyone else had their buttons placed in the back of their teeth also?

Thanks in advance for any of your replies!

-Lisa

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